Curse

Gilriel · Apr 27, 2006, 08:54 PM // 20:54

I agree, Minion Master had more than enough counters already. The worst shot in the groin by far, however, is the nerfing of VS. It seems to be so stupid to just always make it 60 recharge with more than 3 minions. How about making it's recharge dependant on the number of minions? Why not make more skills like the ultimate RAY OF JUDGEMENT, with superpowerful effects on minions? Why not make Verata's Gaze have 1 recharge time?

But God help me, anything but the minion limit and Verata's Sacrifice... I'm even ok with the Blood of the Master change, but this just goes to far. Without dependable armies of at least 15 minions, I believe minions are going to suck in PvE. How will people do the Monk's path now? They at least should make that quest simpler.

Ira Blinks · Apr 27, 2006, 08:56 PM // 20:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stabber

Nope. Next up is Barrage. It will cost 10 energy and be easily interruptible. You heard it here first.

actually i suggested that a few times by now (not the interruptable part ofcourse). Character that already beats most others in damage, interrups, degen, survivablity, etc., etc should not be able to deal aoe damage so easily. It can be energy cost or recharge time or scattering effect or anything...
But that is offtopic really...

Ellena · Apr 27, 2006, 09:26 PM // 21:26

I'd like to see tanks nerfed.. They havent' been nerfed in any game ever sicne ( ironically) the original nerf in Ultima Online ( where weapon damage was dropped so much that people said the swords were made out of nerf, which is where we get the word nerf today.) Tanks are rediclously strong and flexible, being able to solo well, group well, deal massive damage, run areas, etc. Sadly, no one nerfs THEM, just other, weaker ( and harder to play) classes.

salaboB · Apr 27, 2006, 09:29 PM // 21:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gilriel

How will people do the Monk's path now? They at least should make that quest simpler.

A mesmer can hench monk's path. All you do is stand a bit out of range and pull each pair of scarabs as they come up, you won't get overwhelmed then.

Actually using tactics ftw?

Kurow · Apr 27, 2006, 09:43 PM // 21:43

What I'm having trouble seeing is why MMs are so bad. Who cares if they were gods before, it just matters how they are now. What makes them worse than a BM? Im pretty sure pets and minions have the same AI. MMs are still good for something arent they?

Crenait · Apr 27, 2006, 09:48 PM // 21:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by lightblade

OMFG! Max minion is 10 and that is NOT a small number, can't really say it's a nerf.

How often you see MM with more than 10 minion? Expert level MM can maintain 12, compare to 10, that's not a big change.

are you dumb? I have 20+ EASY during a missions *sigh* I have a pic of an oro run with an easy 40 minions....well if they dont fix this im done with gw....glad i didnt prepay for factions

Kurow · Apr 27, 2006, 09:50 PM // 21:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crenait

are you dumb? I have 20+ EASY during a missions *sigh* I have a pic of an oro run with an easy 40 minions....well if they dont fix this im done with gw....glad i didnt prepay for factions

Thats the only reason you play guildwars? /: (

Ira Blinks · Apr 27, 2006, 09:52 PM // 21:52

lots of things are still good for something... like aoe spells for [email protected] up whole party... very effective you know.

Carinae · Apr 27, 2006, 10:00 PM // 22:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ellena

I'd like to see tanks nerfed.. They havent' been nerfed in any game ever sicne ( ironically) the original nerf in Ultima Online ( where weapon damage was dropped so much that people said the swords were made out of nerf, which is where we get the word nerf today.) Tanks are rediclously strong and flexible, being able to solo well, group well, deal massive damage, run areas, etc. Sadly, no one nerfs THEM, just other, weaker ( and harder to play) classes.

LOL! Yea!

High damage, high armor
No specific spellcasting restrictions
3 melee weapon specialties
More rune than other classes
Can solo

Tanks are unbalanced big-time. Nerf tanks.

What really gets me upset is that they did this right before Factions! We were gonna have a rebalance in early April, then that was moved to mid-May so we'd have time to settle into Factions first. Then the day before Factions, they nerf the bejesus out of MMs.

Come on!

Anet really seems disjointed and confused this week. They publish updates, then revoke them, then patch the revocation, then patch the patch for the revocation......Then the next day, reinstate the revoked patch.

Now they need to revoke the reinstatment of the revoked patch.

Seriously, I am really having a hard time finding a desire to play tonight. If we make another good build they'll hammer that down too. What's the solution? Stop posting builds here on Guru or any forum? Become a closed community so good builds don't become popular?

The Minion Master build is dead. Long live the Minion Masters!

Karmaniac · Apr 27, 2006, 10:04 PM // 22:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Maybe, just maybe - they made this update because of PvE.

Anet's actions influenced by PvE? Surely you jest?

Stabber · Apr 27, 2006, 10:13 PM // 22:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurow

Im pretty sure pets and minions have the same AI.

No they don't. You can control what your pet attacks to a certain degree, but your minions will attack the first thing that enters their aggro circle or the target their master has struct, whichever comes first, and they don't switch targets when their master does. There are other minor differences.

Asrial · Apr 27, 2006, 10:25 PM // 22:25

You guys should listen to yourselves...

"I can no longer create my army of 25 minions."

"I can no longer solo some of the hardest areas in the game."

"You can't beat X area without a massive minion army."

"I can't show off and form a ring of 50 billion minions."

.

Yes, they nerfed the MM necromancer.

..but the reason you're upset is because you got used to living the high life and it just got swept away to bring it back in line with everything else.

Crenait · Apr 27, 2006, 10:26 PM // 22:26

ok, all you people saying "who cares your getting great spells with factions" um....ok WHAT IF YOU DONT GET FACTIONS? I'm getting nerfed to hell just so the people buying the new game are better? Oh boy I now get 10 max bone fiends and thats if I can even keep them alive long enough? MM was really the only build in this game I enjoyed, I did it since the original prophecies beta, and now its nerfed. gg anet, only way I think would be good to go with minions is go back to how diablo is, take away their health regen and make their health stay at max, but no regen thats about the only reason I could see coming back all the other classes were unoriginal, MM was the only thing different and cool I liked....man I'm really going to miss this

R.I.P., Vampire X

Asrial · Apr 27, 2006, 10:27 PM // 22:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by salaboB

A mesmer can hench monk's path. All you do is stand a bit out of range and pull each pair of scarabs as they come up, you won't get overwhelmed then.

Actually using tactics ftw?

Quoted for truth.

Hahahahahahahah.

You guys can't really be serious can you?

A MM 'required' for a Monk's Path?

Hahahahahahah.

WarCheese · Apr 27, 2006, 11:05 PM // 23:05

Hello all:

The main cause of the 10 Max Minion nerf arises from the minion health degen. The constant, accumulative degen on the minions made all the difference. VS is not effective to fight this degen, and will probably be ignore by all players. BotM is nice, but is not effective to fight this degen neither. Mind you, if ANet decides that MM should not be keeping minions around from one aggro wave to the next, that's fine.

Just for your info, I don't think MM has a life better than everyone else in the PvE world. In PvE, it's everyone against the world... If ANet nerf MM, they are just making PvE more difficult for everyone. Before, one MM can help in tombs, in SF. By keeping a group small, everyone involved has a higher chance of getting a Green. Now, you'll need more members to do half the tanking/damage the old MM could do. You'll be grinding more fruitless grinds.

Cheers.

WarCheese

Xpl0iter · Apr 27, 2006, 11:25 PM // 23:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarCheese

Hello all:

The main cause of the 10 Max Minion nerf arises from the minion health degen. The constant, accumulative degen on the minions made all the difference. VS is not effective to fight this degen, and will probably be ignore by all players. BotM is nice, but is not effective to fight this degen neither. Mind you, if ANet decides that MM should not be keeping minions around from one aggro wave to the next, that's fine.

Just for your info, I don't think MM has a life better than everyone else in the PvE world. In PvE, it's everyone against the world... If ANet nerf MM, they are just making PvE more difficult for everyone. Before, one MM can help in tombs, in SF. By keeping a group small, everyone involved has a higher chance of getting a Green. Now, you'll need more members to do half the tanking/damage the old MM could do. You'll be grinding more fruitless grinds.

Cheers.

WarCheese

There are countless people i could easily go and prove wrong, which is not even funny. People who are crying about this nerf, realized the time when other professions got nerfed and they were passively buffed because they were left as the major damage dealers of entire game? Let me tell you why you are crying out loud right now. Just like once eles ( including my self ) cried. We were major damage dealers. An army of One. Someone said Oh Necros are so fragile, and this and that. You think someone can pass through so many minnions easily and kill a necro at first place? Being one man army is all we want. And when we are pushed towards being balanced, we cry. I feel buffed in long time as elemental. Even though i held a minnion master, and nearly found SS and other stuff a Joke for my usage in terms of efficiency and hard times, i stoped playing necros. They made me feel cheap. MM always had a better life than any of us. Every team wanted an MM in their build. Now, they will get other professions along with MM to support them, what is so bad about the game being balanced? Think for a moment, if you were on the oposite end of an Alliance battle with a person in oposite team, holding 40 minnions, what would u do ? go and kill him? or try to prove how cool he is? You would hate him for him being so over powered. At this point, an MM can't solo no more with minnions in missions, which seems much balanced to me. For the person who said MM are fragile, how do you solo if they are so fragile? I know exactly how it feels to be on the wrong side of nerf hammer, and guys, accept it. Just like we eles did, for possibly the longest time of this game. We were nerfed to the grounds, and barrage teams just rocked on the back of an MM to tank for them. Now, Tactics are required, and Playing MM is not that easy since you do not hold the entire mission/farming area in your palm.
Live with this. Just like we all are living through nerfs, watching our favourite professions getting nerfed to ground. Every profession rises after the nerf, but takes time. Till then, Good Game To all of You.
It is time that you MMs should stop thinking like once we eles did of ourselves in this game, which was.. Superior. We both are balanced now, As much as an Ele needs you to block foes from him while dishing out the damage, you need an ele to start creating large piles of corpses for you in PVE. And in some places, Alliance battles type PVP too. Mind you, i am not saying other professions dont kill. What i mean to say is, eles are passively buffed by this nerf, and we both can play on equal terms now.

Regardz
An Elementalist.

Kurow · Apr 27, 2006, 11:26 PM // 23:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarCheese

Hello all:

The main cause of the 10 Max Minion nerf arises from the minion health degen. The constant, accumulative degen on the minions made all the difference. VS is not effective to fight this degen, and will probably be ignore by all players. BotM is nice, but is not effective to fight this degen neither. Mind you, if ANet decides that MM should not be keeping minions around from one aggro wave to the next, that's fine.

Just for your info, I don't think MM has a life better than everyone else in the PvE world. In PvE, it's everyone against the world... If ANet nerf MM, they are just making PvE more difficult for everyone. Before, one MM can help in tombs, in SF. By keeping a group small, everyone involved has a higher chance of getting a Green. Now, you'll need more members to do half the tanking/damage the old MM could do. You'll be grinding more fruitless grinds.

Cheers.

WarCheese

Its more important that the classes be equal than the game be easy. I would really like it more if PvE was harder.

kaldak · Apr 27, 2006, 11:59 PM // 23:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurow

What I'm having trouble seeing is why MMs are so bad. Who cares if they were gods before, it just matters how they are now. What makes them worse than a BM? Im pretty sure pets and minions have the same AI. MMs are still good for something arent they?

They have nowhere near the same AI. Pets will switch targets to the one you are targeting, and will break off from combat if you run away. I dont remember for certain, but I think pets may even try to avoid AoE attacks the way enemies do. Minions attack the first thing they see and are then out of your control until everything in the area is dead.

If in return for all these nerfs minions got upgraded to pet-level AI, I'd be pretty happy. The ability to force 10 fiends to target the enemy monk or caster would go a long ways to make up for the recent losses. But as it stands now I think you'll find alot of other builds will now outdamage MMs simply due to the natural shortcomings of minions.

oh, and boo to extra wide pictures inserted into forum threads!

Fargin Scotchsman · Apr 28, 2006, 12:57 AM // 00:57

this is depressing, first putrid, now this, i think anet despises soloing. now i have to get a group, or take henchies. and now even henches talk, the reason i got them is because they DIDN'T talk. argh >.< ima go spam botm till i die...................

unholy guardian · Apr 28, 2006, 02:20 AM // 02:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crenait

ok, all you people saying "who cares your getting great spells with factions" um....ok WHAT IF YOU DONT GET FACTIONS? I'm getting nerfed to hell just so the people buying the new game are better? Oh boy I now get 10 max bone fiends and thats if I can even keep them alive long enough? MM was really the only build in this game I enjoyed, I did it since the original prophecies beta, and now its nerfed. gg anet, only way I think would be good to go with minions is go back to how diablo is, take away their health regen and make their health stay at max, but no regen thats about the only reason I could see coming back all the other classes were unoriginal, MM was the only thing different and cool I liked....man I'm really going to miss this

R.I.P., Vampire X

Holy @#$#@$ nice